A pair of Fox News contributors sparred Friday over a favorite talking point for the network: immigration and border security, with the duo trading barbs and repeatedly trying to cut each other off, at times appearing to flummox host Martha MacCallum.
Appearing on "The Story with Martha MacCallum," Marc Thiessen and Richard Fowler squared off on immigration and the border. Thiessen is a Washington Post columnist who focuses on foreign and domestic policy and is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and Fowler is a radio host and adjunct journalism professor at Georgetown University.
The duo clashed over immigration reforms after being asked about former President Donald Trump's comments that he would launch large-scale deportations of millions of people.
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Fowler said there's a "real lack of courage" in the nation's capital when it comes to getting "real immigration work done."
"We can continue to rule by executive order, which is what we've done in the past couple presidencies — Barrack Obama had [executive orders], then Donald Trump had EOs, now Joe Biden has passed some EOs — but we all know ... we know that EOs — there's not money attached to EOs, there's not personnel attached to EOs, there's not new spending attached to EOs," Fowler said. "These are Band-Aids to bullet wounds. And if we really want to fix our problems with immigration, it requires Congress to actually get some work done to 1) secure the border 2) modernize our system and 3) ensure these folks will never cross."
Fowler said a wall by itself won't solve illegal immigration, and that if the U.S. plans to begin mass deportations as Trump has pledged, logistics need to be figured out.
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"Where are the planes going to come from? You have to pay for those planes you have to pay for the personnel to man those planes," he said.
The conversation devolved into chaos following his next statement: "All that requires congressional action, which means Congress needs to get to work and get something done, whether they're Democrats or Republicans."
MacCallum jumps in and notes with a laugh that Thiessen has been "vehemently shaking his head ever since you started talking."
The panel shares a laugh before Fowler says: "it doesn't change the facts."
Thiessen then proceeds to rip apart Fowler's statements.
"It does change the facts because your facts are wrong," Thiessen said. "Congress does not have ... the president has all the authority he needs to shut down the border tomorrow."
Thiessen cited a Trump vs. Hawaii court case in which the Supreme Court ruled the president has "unlimited authority to bar any alien from entering the country."
Both Fowler and MacCallum try to interject — Fowler arguing it's not authority that's the issue, it's resources — but Thiessen held firm, saying if the president wanted to pass border funding, congress would pass it tomorrow.
Fowler disagreed.
"That's not true," he said.
Thiessen shot back: "Yeah it is!"
Fowler insisted: "That is actually not true," as Thiessen dug in: "That is actually true!"
The duo continued talking over each other during the heated exchange for the next couple of minutes including one more jab of "You're 100 percent wrong!" and "That's not what I said!"
