MSNBC host Stephanie Ruhle sparred with one of her guests Thursday night in what became a tense exchange about former President Donald Trump's meeting with business leaders in the nation's capital.
Amanda Carpenter, a writer and editor at the organization Protect Democracy, appeared as a panelist on the show to discuss Trump's political and financial support post-conviction. When the conversation steered toward's Trump's return to Capitol Hill last week, Carpenter called the Business Roundtable's response "disturbing."
"And what that was, was an exercise in getting the Republican Party around him and the business leaders to say, like,'listen — they all put out this idea that we are unified by an economic agenda. Now, I kind of think that is garbage because Donald Trump is not campaigning on an economic agenda. He is campaigning against the rule of law, he's campaigning on his grievances, but there was a massive show of unity behind tax cuts, right? And that was enough to get people on board."
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Ruhle disagreed with Carpenter's assessment — and butted in, cutting off her guest.
"Well, I ... hold on a minute! I'm going to push back," she said.
Ruhle noted the Business Roundtable made "no statement" after Trump's visit.
When Carpenter tried to continue her point, Ruhle forcefully repeated: "Hold on a minute!"
"There could be a general sense that they support tax cuts, but Andrew Ross Sorkin had reporting from people inside the room from people leaning towards Trump, and they said he was meandering, he was difficult to follow," said Ruhle. "They left feeling really disappointed. And it wasn't just Donald Trump's opportunity to go back to the business community, the business roundtable every four years invites both candidates. This wasn't Donald Trump's grand return and they endorsed him — he got absolutely no endorsement for the business roundtable."
Ruhle finished noting Biden couldn't attend — his chief of staff attended, instead — because he was attending the now-famous G7 summit in Italy.
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Carpenter shot back: "Yeah, I understand all that. I think Donald Trump is so out of the norm, I do not know why these leaders in the business community felt the need to meet him face-to-face. What is the deal with that?"
She continued, appearing slightly flustered, saying: "In the aftermath of January 6th a lot of leaders in the business community said, 'You know what, that is a bright red line. We're not going to have donations to it.' And slowly they all started coming back around. And the reason they came back around is because he is the Republican presidential nominee, and they feel they need to at least go there and save the face, give him a chance and preserve their standing, and their foothold, which I understand from an economic perspective."
When Ruhle tried to interject again, her guest gave a forceful reply.
"This is why the money will be there for him, Stephanie. "The money will be there for him again, and if he wins again, they will be back on board."
Ruhle pushed back on Carpenter's statement again, saying the business leaders are not saying they'll give him money, they're showing up because Trump has about a 50 percent chance to regain the presidency.
"They have to not necessarily endorse him," Ruhle tries to say, as the two continue talking over one another. "But they have to interface with him."
"No they don't!" replied Carpenter. "That's their choice — I understand why they are doing it to preserve their business standing and they have to make this financial bet, so to speak."
Carpenter returned to her previous point that Trump is "far out of the norm for the rule of law" and said there needs to be a deeper understanding and study of how "authoritarianism represented by Donald Trump is bad for the economy."
"Businesses, except for the ones that are in really good with the leader, don't do great in an authoritarian regime," she said.
On that, Ruhle agreed.
"Amen to that. If you do not have a functioning democracy, you're economy will be nowhere bu the toilet," said Ruhle.
Watch the clip below or at this link.